#121 Going Regional Without Breaking RevOps

Janis Zech: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the RevOps Lab Podcast. I'm Janis, and Philipp unfortunately is out today, but we have an awesome guest, Dan Jiao. I hope I pronounced this correctly, the VP of RevOps at Aircall, and a great topic. Hey, Dan. How are you?

Dan Jiao: Yes. Doing great. Thanks for having me. Yeah. We had a prep call. I really enjoyed it. It's a topic I actually enjoyed talking about a lot. So today, we're gonna dive into, you know, regional versus global, and, you know, how to basically, you know, create these type of decisions around it and what it means for RevOps. So I think it's a very relevant topic for all scaled setups. But before we jump in, I mean, maybe you can give a bit of background. Who are you? What do you do? A bit more about your career, and then we can, you know, dive into the topic.

Dan Jiao: Yeah. No. For sure. So appreciate you having me on the podcast episode today. As you mentioned, I'm Dan. I'm the VP of revenue operations here at Aircall. Finishing right now as we record this episode, my second month on the job, so very new. But for some background, before I moved into revenue operations, I started my tech career path in sales. So I spent five years in an identity verification company called Acuant, carrying the bag, everything from mid market and enterprise sales to being a sales director that opened up the APAC region in Singapore before the company was acquired by Mastercard. And what I really learned kind of being in the field was you can have the best reps in the world, you can train them, you can onboard them, you can coach them, but they oftentimes hit a ceiling with the systems that they operate within, which creates the friction in how they can acquire, sell, and expand their customers. So I kinda realized at one point, I didn't wanna just run in the system, but I wanted to help build those systems, which is really what brought me onto the path of operations. Started off as a chief of staff to Acuant's global SVP of sales and partnerships before moving on to a company called Signifyd, which is an ecommerce fraud prevention company, to stand up and build their RevOps work from the ground up as the VP of RevOps there. Most recently, before Aircall, I spent some time at Wiz, which is a cloud and AI security company acquired by Google, created at one billion plus ARR scale. And here I am at Aircall now. So very excited for this topic mainly because it kinda has been one that I've lived on both sides, both as a regional leader who's experienced the friction that comes with these operating models, global functional, and even what GM models look like. And then as an ops leader who has to design away some of the pain for those folks. And I've happened to do this twice now too. So global to regional GM — the shift has happened for me at Signifyd, and then this happened here at Aircall as well.

Janis Zech: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, I actually lived through this with my previous company, Fiverr, where we had similar conversations, so I'm excited to dive in. I mean, maybe, you know, like, you know, explain what does this even mean. Right? Like, global versus regional, and, you know, the way you think about it just for some context, and then we can, yeah, go deeper.

Dan Jiao: Yeah. Definitely to level set. When we say global functional model here, we typically mean the traditional SaaS go to market model of having, like, VP of sales, a VP of CS, a VP of partnerships, VP of BDRs, and so forth. But when you move to a regional GM model, oftentimes, you do it because you wanna be closer to the market. For us here at Aircall, we did it because we saw an inflection point as we moved from being a cloud telephony platform to more of an AI customer communications platform. So that came with a lot of things like how the motion looked, the channel mix, how we thought about regulations in this market since telephony is a very regulated market by market. And when you move to a regional GM model, really what that means is you bring a lot of those functions and you actually localize them. So for us here at Aircall, that means we have regional GMs, one for the global small business, one for what we call Americas Core, EMEA Core, and APAC Core. And they essentially own the P&L, end to end. Right? So instead of just owning a slice of the function, they own the full funnel from BDRs, account executives, the partner account managers, as well as account managers or CSMs that do the expansions and renewals. And actually here more recently, we just moved field marketing over with them as well to give them a little bit more control of the pipeline generation strategy there. That really allows them to own the P&L on top line revenue, on kind of how they're operating their business from a loss standpoint and how profitable it is, and just allows them some control in terms of, like, how they go to market.

Janis Zech: Yeah. So I understand the regional GM model is particularly for the go to market organization. I assume there's product that is centralized, right, that is probably not run regional. And then you mentioned that you also have the SMB business global. Is that how I understood it?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. Yeah. The small business is a global unit, mainly just because we have, like, more of a self serve PLG motion with how we allow some customers to sign up. Think about that as, like, the three to ten person startup that comes on and needs to get set up right away. And one of Aircall's, you know, advantages is we're really easy to get started for an SMB or a mid market company. Right? Like, you don't really need as much IT resources. We have integrations to over two hundred business tools, including Salesforce, HubSpot, Zendesk, and so forth. So that's kind of its own motion, if you will. Right? Like, it almost looks more like an ecommerce business. Somebody just comes on our website. They buy. They're ready to get set up. All the rest is, like, more B2B, like, mid market. You need to go after, like, all the different buying centers from sales, support, and IT teams. So you're right. As you kinda mentioned, like, product is still globally centralized, same with engineering. But, yeah, the regional GM model here is a little bit more focused on the go to market side of the house.

Janis Zech: And then marketing is global and local, it sounds, or how's that set up?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. Good call out there. Yeah. We've kind of been in, like, this transition period, but the parts of marketing that are global are more of, like, performance and growth marketing. So kinda like paid search and ads as well as affiliate marketing, which is something we've been dabbling with more recently. As well as, you know, product marketing, customer marketing, partner marketing, more globally centralized around the head of marketing. And then it's more of the regional slash field marketers that are embedded into the GMs. And that's more of a recent change here since I joined.

Janis Zech: Yeah. And maybe last question before I dive into more Aircall specific questions. But, I mean, obviously, right, like, this probably doesn't make sense if you're ten people or twenty people, right, because it creates a lot of overhead. You almost have to, like, replicate a lot of the functions for the different regions. So what would you say are, like, you know, at what size would you consider this making sense? And maybe some other considerations that you would look at when making that kind of, you know, decision — should we go for a regional or a global model?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. No. That's a good question. I was reflecting on it, and, you know, with Signifyd, the first time I did it, that company was around, like, the one fifty million ARR mark when I was there, and we kind of thought to a point around getting closer to two hundred million plus. Joining Aircall now, this is a company that started the year around two hundred million ARR and it's been growing twenty five percent year over year. So that was probably the flagship point. And the reason that happened was we have, like, let's call it four very distinctive business units. Right? We have a global SMB, our small business. We have Americas, EMEA, and APAC. And each of those businesses kinda holds its own, has its own, like, mini business. And that's around, like, the twenty to thirty million mark for each of those. And not just for each region, actually. It's bigger for, like, EMEA because we have, like, separate areas. Right? Like, we've demarcated, like, France, Italy, Middle East as kinda one area. We have the UK and Ireland. We have DACH, and then we have Iberia, kinda Spain, Portugal. So each of those businesses can do twenty, thirty million on its own, and that's kind of a point in time where you sum those up. You know, EMEA itself does, like, at least fifty percent of our revenue. That's, you know, a good time to realize that, plus Americas are standalone businesses that could warrant almost being its own company, if you will. Right? So that's one of the times that you know you could do this regional model. But, yeah, I'm sure we're gonna talk about it. There's some challenges. Right? Because you don't want it to be like one company that, like, bifurcates itself into, like, four or five different companies because you have all these separate GMs.

Janis Zech: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I mean, I think exactly right. Like, I think how do you keep that kind of functional excellence? Right? That often happens when you have, like, a global team and everybody does it the same way versus, you know, suddenly it's regional. And I think the challenge with this global model is, like, you know, I mean, the best example maybe is my previous company where the way we sell in Germany or in France is very different than in the US, and the way you go to market is very different. So it didn't really make sense to have a global model long term because the difference was so different in that regard. I'm curious, like, I mean, maybe let's go through a bunch of questions on those aspects. So first one is like, who owns the segmentation and territory design? Is that something that the GMs do, or is that RevOps? Yeah. How do you approach that?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. For sure. With the GM model, our CRO would say RevOps becomes increasingly more important because we become the global center of excellence. And, you know, when I first came in, I told the team that we're like a product management organization now. Right? Our product is the global go to market operating system that includes all the features of a product like annual planning, capacity modeling, territory segmentation, sales process, onboarding, and renewal and expansion process, all of those things. Right? And because of that, you know, we have to be the glue. That is not just a glue between, you know, marketing, sales, and CS anymore, but actually the glue between the regional GMs. What Americas is doing versus EMEA versus APAC versus all the, you know, the small business unit. So here at Aircall, we still have RevOps kind of centralized — the model for how we think about segmentation, what the map is that goes into that segmentation model output, like, what are the input variables, what's the weighting. We partner really closely with our colleagues here on our data and systems team to help operationalize that and make it a reality. So that's a very important interface for us here. But the GMs are consulted. Right? Like, because, you know, we can't essentially build the right model without still being close to the market and understanding it in real time — like, what are the real things that help us understand the coverage model? Like, are there little nuances in Germany that we need to factor in so the model can, you know, hit the right segmentation thresholds for what maybe small business versus enterprise might look like in their market. That said, like, you know, we don't wanna conflate two things. Right? Like, segmentation is all about how we think about what's the difference between a small business versus mid market versus enterprise. That's kind of factoring in, like, what is the ICP fit score, as well as, like, what we call, like, buying power proxies. At the moment, we look at things like employee size and kinda, like, their potential call volumes because we kinda commercialize the call whether it's a human agent or an AI agent doing it. So, you know, the idea there is RevOps sets the gold standard — that's nonnegotiable — but the territory carve out part is co-designed. Right? And I think that only works if you do it in tandem with the GMs and some of their frontline leaders. So, yeah, my rule there is the RevOps team centralizes segmentation and territory design. But then the territory design part, we have to co-design with them, especially with the first line sales leaders. So that way, there's buy-in when we do those rollouts, and it doesn't feel like a back office just trying to, like, do spreadsheet math.

Janis Zech: Yeah. I'd love to comment on RevOps being the glue and the center of excellence to basically ensure everything, you know, is, you know, scaling globally. So your team is global. Right? Like, you're global, and then you have embeds into the local structures. Is that fair? Or how is it set up?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. Yeah. We're in this transition here today. It used to just be all global functional, but I'm really fortunate to be at a company that really values RevOps. Everyone from our CEO, CFO, and our CRO really understand the value of operations. So, you know, for us, I would call it a hybrid model. We have a global center of excellence that includes, like, planning and insights. That arm is responsible for annual planning, capacity modeling, the operating cadence, analytics and insights, as well as our PMO plus commissions. So it's almost like the foundation layer for everything we do with go to market. And then we also have, like, acquisition ops, which is, like, more like sales and partner ops. Marketing ops is also kind of there as well — so kind of campaign optimization, ROI, and attribution. We have a customer ops function as well. So that's kind of including post-sales CS as well as, like, our technical customer solutions organization and supporting them. Everything from, like, solutions engineers, customer engineers, and deployed engineers we have here at Aircall. But, you know, that team's job is essentially to create the global standards and design and govern. But more recently, and this is very new, so, like, we haven't operationalized this yet, but we are actually embedding regional RevOps business partners to each of the GMs. So that means they will have, like, a de facto chief of staff that they can go to to help them with, you know, running their operating rhythm. Everything from pipeline inspection and hygiene all the way down to, like, your weekly forecast and business reviews and the QBRs. And then ultimately, the BP's job is to help them diagnose and adopt. Right? Diagnosis really is, like, identifying, like, why might there be a gap and how do we kinda bridge the gap in the region? And then adoption is, hey, how do I make sure that the global standard for deal inspection methodology — here we use SPICED — as well as the forecasting methodology, like, what is a commit deal versus a best case deal — how does that get embedded into the actual daily rhythm and workflows of the GMs and their sales and CS leaders.

Janis Zech: Yeah. I love that. I love that. I think that's so important that, like, you almost need to adhere to it, like, both. Right? Like, you have your global standards, and then you have your, you know, regional, like, almost like a chief of staff role that enables the GMs to, you know, run their business. And probably they also help. Right? Like, they then have special projects, I assume, where they go out and say, well, look, there's a certain gap, you know, let me talk to, you know, the global team and see what other regions are seeing and how do we transfer the different learnings on a global scale. But then you're tied to the regional model. So that's awesome. That makes a lot of sense. In terms of, like, you know, account prioritization and tiering, right — is that something that you work closely with the GMs on? Like, how is that done?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. I know. We have an active project right now. We have a BDR team here that is very much tasked with outbound and, like, figuring out account selection. Aircall, because we're more SMB and mid market focused, doesn't have as much of, like, the let's call it named account strategy because there's just so much volume. We do, like, seven hundred to eight hundred transactions per month just to give you a sense of, like, the scale. So in terms of just account prioritization, it's incredibly important because we have so many different types of accounts from vertical and industry to company size that we can go after. So in a lot of ways, similar to the question of segmentation and territories, it goes back to the first principle that this global RevOps center of excellence is the place that determines the global scoring engine. Right? Like, what's the high fit account based off of, like, our customers with the lowest CAC to LTV? Our lowest CAC, highest LTV. What's kind of the propensity to buy model, like intent? And then what's the white space look like, at least for existing customer accounts? So that's how I think about prioritization — those three dimensions. We currently run that through our planning and insights arm that really controls that in partnership with the data and systems team. Right? The systems team's job is to go kinda work with data providers, whether it be like Clay, ZoomInfo, Cognism, Lusha. And the data team helps us with modeling that out based off of kind of our true data set. Right? That being said, to do, like, a top prioritization, well, like I said, you have to co-design this. We kinda need to create a feedback loop with the GMs and their AE and AM leaders to know, like, is this actually working so we can fine tune the model? Maybe intent looks differently in different regions. Like, we might just not be able to get as much, let's call it, like, dark funnel signals in EMEA because of, like, privacy laws and kinda controls there versus the data that's available for American buyers. So how I think about it is there's still a global standard. I think you can maybe regionally calibrate with the GMs, and this is why I love the business partner model — to help do that analysis and diagnosis of, like, where that needs to happen and then what the cut points are. So, like, let's say if a scoring model has an output between zero to a hundred for account prioritization, like, where the BDRs and AEs and AMs should spend their time in their books of business. And then you might say that based off our model, we know that seventy and above is really predictive in the Americas. But you might realize that in EMEA, because of how the model has been trained globally on the standards, you need to only go after eighty and above. And that kinda gets you the right threshold for the different regions based off what volume the BDRs and AEs can work. And then it's like, what's actually predictive. So that's why I still think it's a co-design partnership. Like any good RevOps process, I think you need a good way to systematically allow reps to give you feedback on it. Not just anecdotally, but if there's a quantitative way to see, like, hey, here's an account that was picked up, and did it convert into pipeline or not, and did that pipeline get closed won. So I think that's really important. So to sum this one up, it's like you still have one global model and standard, but you might have multiple calibrations by the regions.

Janis Zech: Yeah. I mean, I would assume that kind of the scoring model and the territory design obviously has a big impact on capacity, and the capacity probably lives in the GM, right, because GMs have their kind of P&L management, so they decide how many headcount they hire, right — but obviously, that's dictated by the opportunity in the different regions, right, and the regions might look very different in terms of the overall sales strategy. How do you make these, like, kind of capacity hiring decisions — again, RevOps having, you know, kind of the quantitative view and then going into the conversations with the GMs? Yeah, just curious how that's done. I assume that's, like, extremely hard to do in what you're describing, but yeah.

Dan Jiao: A more recent example that hits close to home here at Aircall is just how we think about AM or CSM capacity. Right? Like, how many accounts can we handle? That's gonna vary based off of, like, regional and cultural nuances as well as, like, if a certain market buys us more SMB versus mid market versus enterprise. So, like, we even see, like, the ratios that our GMs might expect based off the book of business they have and the type of talent they're hiring in the US versus maybe France. It'd be very different. Like, maybe one region is, like, one AM to a hundred accounts, and maybe another is one to fifty based off just the demands of those accounts, the size of those accounts. So then that kind of makes it a different capacity question because when you're working with HR and FP&A, and they're trying to figure out, like, hey, here's how many people we have to hire, how much does that person cost fully loaded. So, yeah, the capacity equation becomes a lot more interesting, especially when you add in, like, how fully loaded costs are higher in EMEA based off, like, you know, healthcare and all the benefits there versus how it looks when you model that in the US. But, you know, the first two are base salaries. But, yeah, going back to your question about capacity. You know, we simply set up a capacity model at the beginning of the year. We base it off of productivity. We try to base territories based off of, you know, like, what we think the potential is. That's always kind of a hard thing, but that's also what quotas get set off of too, by the way. I think quotas get set off of, like, territories, not just, like, everyone has, like, the same quota. So that's an important thing. And I think that factors into the whole math problem with how you do capacity and figure out, like, where you kind of change things around. The other thing too is here at Aircall, we track things based off of some type of attribution for both qualified pipeline creation as well as net new sales bookings. So that gives us a little bit of an idea of, you know, what the channel mix might be. There might be — like, I know for a fact that one of our regions right now is doing a lot better when it comes to outbound BDR. So we might invest more capacity there because we know it's more productive capacity. But then in another region, we might divest from that and push more into the channel partnerships or field marketing side because that's driving a lot more of the pipeline and higher win rate. So I think that's kind of the interesting math problem there. And it's actually why I'm so bullish right now on building out our business partner practice within RevOps, because you can only really diagnose that in real time and react quickly after it if you have that person in market embedded with the GM and kinda living the rhythm day by day. Right?

Janis Zech: Yeah. Yeah. I think especially when you think about, like, you know, what drives pipeline, right, like as a specific example. The question then also becomes, right, like, is one region so much better because that's just how the region works, or is it because maybe the quality of the system in the region isn't working as well? And so if you don't have anyone embedded into this, right, like, it's very hard to actually know why it's not working. Right? Like, do you feel like — is your approach there, like, if something is working, just do more of that and divest from the others so you push more towards that? Or do you basically say, okay, well, outbound is working so much better in region A, we should have other benchmarks in region B, or both? Like, how do you look at that now?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. I'm a big fan of finding the bright spots when you invest and kind of are doing change management. Like, find the places that are, like, really working, not just from a quantitative standpoint, but from, like, a culture and morale perspective as well. So, yeah, when something's working, you gotta just pour fuel on it. So especially kind of in this, like, AI native go to market motion. It's like when you find something, you just gotta let it, like, kinda break open. So, yeah, that's how I typically see it. I don't like to think about it as, like, divesting per se from a certain function because that's not gonna make it any better in terms of performance. But you do have to figure out ways to further invest. Right? So it doesn't necessarily have to be a zero sum game when, you know, as the VP of RevOps or even our GMs and CRO are going to our CFO and kinda talking about what the financial investment might look like and the ROI on that investment. So I wouldn't use a term like divest, but I would say, like, continue to invest in the bright spots of the business.

Janis Zech: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And is RevOps always part of those budget discussions? Like, do you feel like that's a crucial piece to have context? Or how embedded are you in those, you know, GM budget, P&L discussions between finance, probably the global CRO, COO. Like, do you have a seat at that table?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. Yeah. I'm fortunate to have a seat at the table. It's one of the reasons I was excited to join Aircall. Like I mentioned earlier in our podcast episode, CEO, CFO, CRO — everyone on the executive team really values revenue operations as a function. And it's kind of a partnership between four pillars here at Aircall. It's CFO, kind of FP&A and budget and, like, where we need to go top line and EBITDA wise. There's CHRO and kind of the people and TA team that understand, like, what's the hiring plan look like? Do we have enough folks to help recruit and onboard these employees effectively at the right time? There's, of course, the CRO and the GMs who feel, like, the need for resourcing and capacity and when it makes sense to their business goals. And there's RevOps. That's almost the neutral referee between all those. Right? That's actually why I think it's really great because RevOps sees the capacity model. We see, like, all the data. So we bring all the insights to that conversation, and we can be a neutral referee between the CRO and GMs always wanting more headcount versus the CFO who says, let's not hire. Let's, you know, have a higher EBITDA and gross margin.

Janis Zech: Yeah. I love it. Love it. I mean, I think it's, as you know, it's one of the key challenges for many RevOps leaders — like, do you, you know, have stakeholders that are as vested as they seem to be at Aircall, which I think is really awesome because, obviously, also with a SMB and mid market business, right, you have so many transactions, so much velocity, so operational excellence actually matters so much. And the complexity is fairly high if you span that across essentially four business units, right — one global, three regional. It's just not really easy to do. One other question on kind of the operating model, right? So, I mean, I assume you have like gold standards in terms of like, you know, how kind of your, you know, deal hygiene inspection and forecast process should look like, but then, you know, there's probably nuances. Like, how do you do that? Is that something, again, that you do globally and everybody else is the same, or is it adjusted?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. For sure. Yeah. You're gonna kinda hear a theme with me that I still think RevOps holds the global standard there. Although, this one's a little bit more nuanced versus maybe segmentation and account prioritization work. So I believe RevOps with our CRO owns the global standard for our qualification process, our sales process, and with that, kind of the frameworks and methodologies that get used and feed into forecasting. Because ultimately, what you wanna make sure of is RevOps can be the glue where you're not running four or five different businesses because you shifted from global functional to the regional GM model. But rather, you could still kinda resolve everything to a single set of KPIs and one number that you can report to the C-suite as well as to the board. And you can't do that if, like, one business is defining commit and, like, a stage four deal differently from another region or business unit. So I still think that's really important, but there's kinda nuances in terms of, like, you know, the GM should still be able to run their own weekly, you know, deal inspection and forecasting rhythms. There might be nuances to how they fill out SPICED because a critical event in Germany might look very differently from Australia based off of, like, the time of year, the buying committees, the procurement processes, the cultural norms for how you, like, do contracting. So I think that part should be made its own, and you can only really do that when you have the GM who understands how buying processes, critical events, and timelines actually work within their business. So you set the global standard for, like, what we say is a commit deal and what we believe should happen for a late stage deal. Like, who do you need to multithread with? What's the executive sponsorship and economic buyer engagement look like? So there's still, like, requirements of, like, I'd call them buyer verified exit criteria. So, like, what does the buyer actually have to show and prove as evidence that you're actually in a late stage deal? So I think that sales process and the forecast methodology tied to that have to still be held to the standard. That's why the BPs — we'll go back to that — have to kinda help reinforce that standard, and it's why we have them directly report to RevOps, but dotted line over to the GMs.

Janis Zech: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Is — I mean, your exit criteria sound like they're buyer signaled exit criteria. So you basically put more emphasis on what the buyers do rather than what the reps kind of, you know, say they've done. Is that something you automate, or is that something that is still, like, fairly manual process? How do you think about that?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. Transparently, we have to be better about it. So I, you know, I'd love to say that we've got it all figured out. I'm new here to Aircall, so one of my priorities is to get us better with the sales process and deal inspection rigor, and then ultimately how that feeds into forecast accuracy. But in previous organizations, I would say the way you verify that is there's sometimes a type of evidence. Luckily, now we have, like, conversation intelligence and AI on top of that that can help you kind of prove out if something has happened in the process. I'm sure you all at Weflow have something similar to help your customers with verifying, like, did the buyer say this, or is it just a sales rep filling out a custom field in Salesforce? But, no, I think that's incredibly important, especially now when you think about a sales rep's job. Like, when I used to be a seller, buyers just had a lot less information. Even though they were super educated back then too, you could Google things. But now that you have Claude and ChatGPT, getting information is so much easier — the buyer comes in a lot more educated, and your job isn't to sell as much as to guide the buyer through the evaluation process and the purchase process now. So it's on the buyer's terms. Right? Like, the sales stages are there, yes, for the seller to understand not just what they're supposed to do, but ultimately, where's the buyer truly at before they're ready to commit to a partnership with your company.

Janis Zech: Yeah. Yeah. I fully agree. I think it's so important that, like, in the end, if you record every call, if you catch every email, and if you properly map that to your CRM data structure, you know, the AI is quite capable of, you know, kind of filling in your, you know, qualification criteria, and also, like, scoring each qualification criteria to get a better understanding of where you sit in the sales process and what are some of the gaps and risks, and then how do you take that to orchestrate specific actions? Right? I think that's basically where everything's going. But, yeah, I think it makes a ton of sense. Maybe one last question that just came up — is there, like, do you have a customer success or, like, sales excellence, like, people that are basically running, like, almost like a functional leader that is not RevOps that has, like, global enablement roles and responsibilities? Is that something that also happens? Like, how does the VP of sales share their learnings with maybe other regions? Is there a process for that?

Dan Jiao: Yeah. The CRO and myself are probably that, along with our SVP of customer solutions and applied AI where enablement rolls up to today. We're currently trying to get into, like, an operating rhythm where we have, like, best practice sharing on a biweekly or monthly basis between all the regional leads. So it's kind of a good way to get,